Bar crossing goes wrong

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re-tyred
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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by re-tyred » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:53 am

At coastguard Lakes Ent we practice crossing through breakers, most training days. Firstly we have vessels that are self draining and buoyant enough to survive a deckload of water. Your average rec boat is neither. The basic method used is the same for all three vessels. Jetski, RIB and 3100 Noosacat .
Practice reading the swells, look out the back to watch how they are forming up and the break point as they roll into the shallows.
You need to cross them either before they break or after they have broken, not just as they form vertical walls and start to lip at the top. That is they point when you will get swamped.
Once you decide to enter the breaking zone you need to travel quickly through it, but not so quick you get airborne on the swells. When a swell is lumping up close in front, slow up and then just as it is about to hit power up to lift your bow. Hold the power on to push through. As you crest the wave power off so you don't launch into outer space. Many people suffer injuries from the fall off the back of waves. As you land you need to immediately look for the next wave and decide whether to power on to beat it or slow to let it break.
If you get swamped, full power to straighten up and keep the power on as the weight of the water in the boat will seriously degrade the performance.

If you are an occasional bar crosser don't go unless it is flat.
If you are a regular bar crosser, you need to have some serious bilge pumps that are automatic. You should also have calculated your floatation and upgraded it. Most vessels while sold as positively buoyant do not float when flooded because of extra gear and larger motors than standard.
I added boat collars to my tinny as I am a regular bar crosser. Adding extra buoyancy high up will assist in keeping a vessel afloat and upright. You can't pump a boat out unless it floats with the gunwale above water..
There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats.
Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole)

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by re-tyred » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:08 am

Goose surf.jpg
The correct way to exit a breaker.
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Note our protective gear and my ability to walk on water :)
There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats.
Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole)

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by Sebb » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:52 am

Thanks re-typed, I'll remember that when I have a boat one day.
Being on a yak, I wouldn't go when it's rough.
------------------------------
A fish is a fish :ft:
No fish is worth a life, stay safe

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by frozenpod » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:46 am

Seb85 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:52 am
Being on a yak, I wouldn't go when it's rough.

It is all relative, on a yak a bar even on a calm day might be considered rough.

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by frozenpod » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:51 am

re-tyred wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:53 am
You should also have calculated your floatation and upgraded it. Most vessels while sold as positively buoyant do not float when flooded because of extra gear and larger motors than standard.
I added boat collars to my tinny as I am a regular bar crosser. Adding extra buoyancy high up will assist in keeping a vessel afloat and upright. You can't pump a boat out unless it floats with the gunwale above water..
Agree, extra floatation above the floor height is critical to keeping the boat upright if you take on a lot of water.

You can buy closed cell foam for exactly this purpose it is pretty easy to add 1m^3 of foam to a small boat and add 900kg plus of load bearing capability.

Perfect place for foam is in the under the gunnels, in under the transom, seat boxes and cabin side pockets.

Bugatti

Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by Bugatti » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:45 pm

re-tyred wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:17 pm

Simple, should not have been there.

If you are going out to recreational fish. Never go if conditions are a bit dodgy
We all moan and gripe about our "favourite" bait knife going over-board.

So why risk your favourite bait knife, everything else on board, everyone else on board's life, your life , , , , and the suffering it is going to cause your family and friends , , , , all for a few pieces of fish.

So any Boatie with doubt or a smart sense of self-preservation , , , , listen to re-tyred , , , , who is an Ex-Commercial Fisherman, a Coast Guardsman and some one who has got to the age of retirement.

"Simple, should not have been there."

I have no qualm (and done it a few times), parked at the Boat Ramp (sharing my Thermos Coffee with other sensible Boaties) while we all have a friendly chat before we all make the best manoeuvre a Captain can make to handle dodgy conditions , , , , a U-Turn at the Ramp with the Boat in tow BACK home for some morning Bacon & Eggs , , , , and if you have a GOOD Deckie, their reply should be , , , , "Oooow, and some fried Mushrooms too".

I would rather live with others thinking I am Chicken , , , , rather than die trying to prove I'm a Hero




Now that being said , , , , the , , , , "Simple, should not have been there" , , , , is more at that specific location. The conditions of the ocean didn't seem bad, just a rolling low swell that turned into breakers, large breakers at the Sand Bar. Those breakers were localised. The ocean seemed fine and a wider berth around the breakers would have been the safer option , , , , poor choice made by both Captains.


Bar Crossing 2.PNG



Regards, Happy for anyone to call me Chicken, because when I get home , , , , my kids can still call me "Dad" , , , ,

Bugatti

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by re-tyred » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:38 pm

Yeah, Bugatti, you have it. It showed he was inexperienced. An inexperienced person should not use a day like that to gain experience. They should go on flat days until they learn how to setup and drive their boat over bars. If the waves are breaking where you want to go and it is your first or one of just a few times, then stay home.
There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats.
Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole)

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by Wolly Bugger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:05 pm

Some people may laugh but the Patterson River entrance into Port Phillip bay is classified as a bar. In certain conditions, decent size waves can be present at the entrance.

For example, if there has been a bit of rain and large volumes of water are flowing out of the Patterson River with an outgoing tide and a westerly wind. The entrance can be shallow from sand build up and that makes it worse.

On two occasions I have buried the bow of my boat into waves whilst exiting that entrance. Getting absolutely drenched on one occasion as the clears were pushed in.

Entering the Patterson River on these occasions, also have a challenge, as the outgoing water/tide meets waves travelling west to east, this creates pressure waves and entering the river a boat can broach.

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by Wolly Bugger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:11 pm

re-tyred wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:38 pm
Yeah, Bugatti, you have it. It showed he was inexperienced. An inexperienced person should not use a day like that to gain experience. They should go on flat days until they learn how to setup and drive their boat over bars. If the waves are breaking where you want to go and it is your first or one of just a few times, then stay home.
Heading to Apollo bay next month and that presents a challenge exiting and entering the harbour. It usually means sitting in the harbour until a set has gone through, poking the nose out looking for a spot that is flatter than the rest. Timing is important, especially if there are surfers, surfing the break wall.

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Re: Bar crossing goes wrong

Post by bowl » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Bugatti wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:45 pm
re-tyred wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:17 pm

Simple, should not have been there.

If you are going out to recreational fish. Never go if conditions are a bit dodgy
We all moan and gripe about our "favourite" bait knife going over-board.

So why risk your favourite bait knife, everything else on board, everyone else on board's life, your life , , , , and the suffering it is going to cause your family and friends , , , , all for a few pieces of fish.

So any Boatie with doubt or a smart sense of self-preservation , , , , listen to re-tyred , , , , who is an Ex-Commercial Fisherman, a Coast Guardsman and some one who has got to the age of retirement.

"Simple, should not have been there."

I have no qualm (and done it a few times), parked at the Boat Ramp (sharing my Thermos Coffee with other sensible Boaties) while we all have a friendly chat before we all make the best manoeuvre a Captain can make to handle dodgy conditions , , , , a U-Turn at the Ramp with the Boat in tow BACK home for some morning Bacon & Eggs , , , , and if you have a GOOD Deckie, their reply should be , , , , "Oooow, and some fried Mushrooms too".

I would rather live with others thinking I am Chicken , , , , rather than die trying to prove I'm a Hero




Now that being said , , , , the , , , , "Simple, should not have been there" , , , , is more at that specific location. The conditions of the ocean didn't seem bad, just a rolling low swell that turned into breakers, large breakers at the Sand Bar. Those breakers were localised. The ocean seemed fine and a wider berth around the breakers would have been the safer option , , , , poor choice made by both Captains.



Bar Crossing 2.PNG




Regards, Happy for anyone to call me Chicken, because when I get home , , , , my kids can still call me "Dad" , , , ,

Bugatti
Should of least been trying orange line route to get out imo....
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To many boats kayak, helicopter , catch a fish,catch a fish

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