Snags on Friday..

Everything that has nothing to do with fishing.
rb85
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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by rb85 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:45 pm

blacklab99 wrote:Hi RB,
I think you will find that those historical trust farm ventures are a thing of the past now.
Any body can put a property, business etc into trust, but there are certain limits now which prevent it like in the past
I agree with you that farming is not the only other industry contributing to the ecconomy,
However, farming internally is the biggest contributing industry in Australia, far more than manufacturing ever was I think you will find.
A lot of farms were more prepared than others, but that's totally dependant on where they are, those in the direct drought area have or had no ability to for see or prepare for such disaster. All ready, the supply of feed from Victoria is being held back, due to the fact that they are now concerned about there future. There is no way, any farmer could have prepared for such a drought, or indeed when the floods affected farmers.
Empathy needs to be applied here, the arguement of support will rage on, the comparison to other manufacturing industries is totally irrelevant, if a buisness is running at a loss, why subsidise it for pure jobs, if an industry runs into trouble that actually feeds the country, well, you help it, surely.
The farmers unfortunately are being screwed for their produce, I mean, $1.00 per litre for milk ! I know what it costs to produce a litre of milk and believe me, you'd make more at mcdonalds serving behind the counter, But, that's totally another issue.
But good points Rb, an interesting topic all the same, and one that will be hotly debated un less the rain comes

Col
Farm succession plans are definitely something that still can be done many accountancy firms advertise to assist farmers in the transition they are definitely not non existent plenty of accounting firms offer these services to farmers. Still the previous link I shared for family farms is still relevant even if there has been changes to the way a farm succession can be structured even though the value of land being so high creates other issues such as what sibling takes control or is it divided up etc estate matters that a lot of families and small business owners face just farm land is of a higher value.

The $1 a litre for milk price is just wrong but unfortunately you reap what you sow when it comes to this. Since 2000/2001 when dairy farmers deregulated their industry so their was no longer a set price for milk replacing it with prices set by market force. This was done to try and increase profits little did they know the market was due to have international competition. This whole situation has shown that farmers are no longer immune to international competitors like a lot of our other industries.

How do we evaluate the biggest contributing industries in Australia? According to the ABS a number of industries Employed more people than agriculture but the Agriculture industry contributed more in sale service and income with healthcare a close second. I believe forestry and fishing contribute to the Agriculture industries figures.

We know that a farmer can not predict the weather or if the land is over utilised but when there are conflicting reports which suggest some farmers prepared better than others or why theres questions that need to be answered doesn't mean people shouldn't donate but our government needs to evaluate every situation on it's individual basis.

This still does not address the question of the farm deposit management scheme and whether the 6 billion in funds nationally can be used by any of the drought effected farmers or whether they contributed to the scheme in better years. If theres money to be used by farmers their why isn't it being used their is a provision for droughts.

Not going to fire any more questions for now as that is probably alot but I still think farmers are another cog in society and not just one massive entity. We need food, electricity, shelter, drinking water, healthcare, transport of food, shipping and custom checks of food and other produces, disposal of waste, sewage etc they are all cogs in the system all equally important and the majority of society contribute. Farmers are doing it tough like many others are be sympathetic to who you feel needs a helping hand it's the Aussie way and a great gesture. Others who recognise that farmers aren't the only people suffering in society are fair in their acknowledgement of others its not a competition times are tough for many.

rb85
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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by rb85 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:50 pm

barra mick wrote:
Josho wrote:
Kimtown wrote:Is it un-australian of me to show little sympathy toward our farmers?

I mean, some chose their career paths, most had it handed to them on a silver platter, none of them are forced to continue doing what they are doing yet most ask for hand outs. I can guarantee almost every farmer is doing it better than the 60%+ of small business owners that go bankrupt.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't deserve it, because they work as hard as anyone... but I'm getting a little over the sob stories being thrown in my face. Plenty of Australian industries are doing it tough, not just the farmers.

I'm gonna get ripped to shreds off everyone for my unpopular opinion but w/e.
Not unAustralian just ignorant.
The suicide rate amongst farmers is very high.

The go into so much debt buying food for there animals and then if it rain doesn' come t or they cant borrow any more money they are forced to shoot there stock.

Often next unfortunally they take there own lives .

Lots off new and central queensland havnt a blade off grass in there paddocks and no money to buy food.

Cheers bm
The farmers aren't on their own when it comes to these statistics not good at all for anyone.

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by blacklab99 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:42 pm

Great post Rb, some very good points,

And without calling farmers "sooks" and attitudes of "entitlement", as that **** head chose to label them.

I believe Its all about planning and moving with the times, which farmers will have to do in order to survive.

It was said here by another ill informed person, all the good stuff gets sold off shore and we pay a fortune for lesser quality produce.
Our agriculture sector supplies 93 % of what we eat, So again, people, as mentioned before in another thread, should put there foot in there gob, if they state untruths.

The only thing I can really question Rb is re the money side.
Do you know how many Billions we subsidised the car industry over the years, for an industry that couldn't compete , propped up by the tax payer and contributing way less to the economy than agriculture and supporting far less employees and virtually adding nothing to the counties GDP.
I had three family members effected by the closing, so I do have empathy with all those effected. But if we have to talk about what we pay in supporting an industry, firstly we must also look at their economical benefits to the country.

Any country that can physically feed itself, is in better shape than most out there, this is such an important part of the fabric and strength of a countries back bone, and yet most people would rather have billions spent on subsidies to support a failing car industry without so much as a second thought, for all those years.
A lot of generalisations have been made, by people that have firstly no first hand experience of what is involved in life on a farm and indeed what is involved in running and committing to a farming career, but somehow without ever stepping foot on a working farm, are suddenly experts, that erks me RB, and I don't lump you in that category, let me make that clear.
But in conclusion, I'll say that 99 % of farmers in this country, are adapting and changing to both the climatic and market changes that are happening, the wealth they create or save this country, by effectively providing 93 % of our intake, shouldn't be sneezed at, we would be in all sorts of trouble as a country if all our food was bought off shore, along with the massive flow on effect of subsidery businesses that exist to directly support agriculture.
It's a hard call, but it's an industry I believe we must support 100%, we cant afford not too me thinks.
We can do without our ford falcon or Holden commodore parked in the driveway, but we all have to eat ! that's the key !

cheers

Col

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by Texas » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:56 pm

Thanks rb85 & col, you both make a lot of sense
I was taught that we propped up the motor industry, in case of WW3.
If WW3 should happen, can we manufacturer weapons???
Gra

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by rb85 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:22 pm

blacklab99 wrote:
The only thing I can really question Rb is re the money side.
Do you know how many Billions we subsidised the car industry over the years, for an industry that couldn't compete , propped up by the tax payer and contributing way less to the economy than agriculture and supporting far less employees and virtually adding nothing to the counties GDP.
I had three family members effected by the closing, so I do have empathy with all those effected. But if we have to talk about what we pay in supporting an industry, firstly we must also look at their economical benefits to the country.

Any country that can physically feed itself, is in better shape than most out there, this is such an important part of the fabric and strength of a countries back bone, and yet most people would rather have billions spent on subsidies to support a failing car industry without so much as a second thought, for all those years.
A lot of generalisations have been made, by people that have firstly no first hand experience of what is involved in life on a farm and indeed what is involved in running and committing to a farming career, but somehow without ever stepping foot on a working farm, are suddenly experts, that erks me RB, and I don't lump you in that category, let me make that clear.
But in conclusion, I'll say that 99 % of farmers in this country, are adapting and changing to both the climatic and market changes that are happening, the wealth they create or save this country, by effectively providing 93 % of our intake, shouldn't be sneezed at, we would be in all sorts of trouble as a country if all our food was bought off shore, along with the massive flow on effect of subsidery businesses that exist to directly support agriculture.
It's a hard call, but it's an industry I believe we must support 100%, we cant afford not too me thinks.
We can do without our ford falcon or Holden commodore parked in the driveway, but we all have to eat ! that's the key !

cheers

Col
All good Col I haven't given an opinion on government support for farmers for one very simple reason. It's not simple its that bloody complicated issue one theres things to be clarified for me to understand what is needed such as the FMD and whether the money in the scheme could be released to support farmers who have contributed in good years to an account under this scheme with the related hardship concessions.

Briefly on the auto industry the best way the industry could have been restricted would have been to protect the industry by restricting free trade or having higher import tariffs this would also help dairy farmers in a deregulated market. It's hard to compete with cheaper wage costs, electricity etc.
The economic benefit of propping up the auto industry came from the amount of people who remained employed at the time and the cities and regional areas they spent their money in. Farms are a little more spread out but still support their surrounding communities.

Don't disagree with farmers being supported by government if and when they need support it's the levels of support and how the best way to achieve that is.Yes I do agree we need national food security I have always been on how the best way to provide support is. Im an advocate for farmers getting behind supporting workers in manufacturing, construction, textiles, education etc and the people from these industries getting behind the farmers.

Sadly there appears to be a massive gap socially and politically.

Will finish on this though as a hypothetical if theres high unemployment and workers are struggling to make ends meet after losing your job you can either buy the $2 carton and support the Aussie farmer or buy the $1.20 carton and save on your grocery bill. If your out of work and broke what do you do?

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by rb85 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:25 pm

Texas wrote:Thanks rb85 & col, you both make a lot of sense
I was taught that we propped up the motor industry, in case of WW3.
If WW3 should happen, can we manufacturer weapons???
Gra
No worries mate interesting topic. Might have a snag for dinner Friday :thumbsup:
Have heard that one before never was sure where that came from.

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by Kimtown » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:04 pm

blacklab99 wrote:And without calling farmers "sooks" and attitudes of "entitlement", as that d*** head chose to label them.
Really mature buddy :victory:

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by blacklab99 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:17 pm

Mature ?? Buddy ?

"sooks" and "Entitled" QUOTE
I stand by what I said, your a ******** for saying that.
Take responsability for what you say pal.

Col

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by Kimtown » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 pm

blacklab99 wrote:Mature ?? Buddy ?

"sooks" and "Entitled" QUOTE
I stand by what I said, your a ******** for saying that.
Take responsability for what you say pal.

Col
I'm really not sure where you've got the part where I called all farmers sooks from but if you want to continue to fabricate some quotes to support your argument, then that's fine.... I won't judge you for below the belt tactics.

The "entitled" part was referring to the man who complained about having to pay tax on a more than generous donation toward his business. You appear to be highly uneducated as evident in your spelling and also your inability to use a simple quote feature button so I shouldn't be surprised you can't grasp the context of my posts.

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Re: Snags on Friday..

Post by VooDoo » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:49 pm

To snag or not to snag - what a big dilemma it will be for me come this Friday!!!

Bunnings marketing department have done a wonderful job to get this question debated here vigorously - and of course, how many of us will just go there for a snag and perhaps a fag only? Majority will just can't resist the temptation to step inside that massive shed to get something else. But whatever their motives are, at least they are putting the issue out there for discussion and at least raise some much needed funds to help out the affect farmers who are doing it real tough. If you can't picture the real crisis then perhaps this article will help you understand it - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-08/n ... t/10088628. Remember this is the WHOLE state of NSW (as well as other parts of QLD) that are being affected - hence the urgency of the government to act.

I will leave the debate about the importance of agriculture or other industries toward our nation to those whom posted before me but I will need to address one thing - whether you agree with the campaign ran by the Big Shed Bunnings or not, there was no need to go cast the wide net that all farmers are undeserving of our sympathy during this tough time. Not all farmers are hand me down generations as one put it and not all area in the countries are in severe drought conditions.

Totally agreed with many posters that it's such an "un-Australian" act. There was no need to put the boot into someone whom is already hurt and doing it tough. I will call it beyond "un-Australian" act but more akin to a coward act - even if these are just words.

After all that, think i feel like a snag on Friday - probably will make it 2 and will round it up with a note as well!! At least my tummy will be happy :super:
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