Page 11 of 16

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:03 pm
by baitworms
Like the rabbit virus, resistance will build in the remaining Carp.
It still going to take fisherman to donate their time say twice a year for Carp days.
Rip into them and help get rid of some of them.
if some companies? ran Competitions with prizes. Largest. Special weight. Junior. Female.
And its pretty hard to have a ringa bring in a fish from elsewhere as they breakdown so quickly and who would care its one less in the water.
But the local Shire would be needed to waive tip fees for dumping the carcass's more than once they have demanded I pay.
like they do at Bairnsdale but more often its got to have some benefit even if its just teaching juniors.
Too many take their recreation pastime, without thinking about who is it that's going to protect our waterways.
Rather than club trips to fish for the normal catch, club trips for the "Battle of the Carp" we should all be Pro-active.

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 2:30 pm
by cantcatchem
baitworms wrote:Like the rabbit virus, resistance will build in the remaining Carp.
It still going to take fisherman to donate their time say twice a year for Carp days.
Rip into them and help get rid of some of them.
if some companies? ran Competitions with prizes. Largest. Special weight. Junior. Female.
And its pretty hard to have a ringa bring in a fish from elsewhere as they breakdown so quickly and who would care its one less in the water.
But the local Shire would be needed to waive tip fees for dumping the carcass's more than once they have demanded I pay.
like they do at Bairnsdale but more often its got to have some benefit even if its just teaching juniors.
Too many take their recreation pastime, without thinking about who is it that's going to protect our waterways.
Rather than club trips to fish for the normal catch, club trips for the "Battle of the Carp" we should all be Pro-active.
That would take 500 years

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 4:49 pm
by baitworms
Oh yea of little faith.
They will still be there even if a virus is released, the hardy variety that can stand and survive a virus and breed.
It is "US" fisherman that need to get stuck in start to erode the stock available.
So your saying 500 years, 8 generations of your children future wont be able to fish fresh/brackish water for native fish only carp.
If your version comes of the future, no cod no natives at all only swamp and carp.
No! to start Fisheries Victoria should start a Carp challenge all day every day, a chance to get you name on the challenge board with a prize announced annually.
Negativity does nothing but allows them to breed more.

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 4:54 pm
by cantcatchem
I don't think that the virus is the answer either but what you are proposing is never going to work, go to lake Burrumbeet and see how many carp you catch in a sitting, they have carp culls there every year and more and hundreds are taken out but yet thousands more are still in there, that's only one waterway

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:27 pm
by baitworms
So what sit on your hands and say its not worth trying.
If hundreds are taken out, what if none were taken out wipe Burrumbeet of the map.
Which waterway is next, maybe not in your time but what about your grandkids.
Something has to be done, and it needs everybody.
just think carp induced change to the waterways, slower water, pooling of dead water channels, Hello Mozzies.
Haven't we got enough mozzies without letting carp produce more dead water.
In Victoria now we have more, Ross River virus, Bairnsdale ulcer, and mozzie related disease that the doctors have to diagnose that they don't know.
Sitting on your hands only produce a negative.

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:03 am
by April Fool
I attended the trout conference in August. Travis Dowling was asked how is the virus program going. He said since Barnaby Joyce has disappeared from the scene, momentum for the introduction of the virus has waned. He said there is a lot of publicity being circulated by people against the virus. I can't remember his words exactly but he suggested that a lot of info being circulated by the 'anti virus' mob was not true.
cheers
Jim

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 4:42 am
by OkeyDokey
I've thoroughly read each comment in this thread before deciding to add my opinion. @Truedogz - I tip my hat to you for your intelligent, researched contribution. However, THE major point is missing from this whole Australia wide debate on carp. I'm going to irritate some people BUT I'm possibly going to gain some likeminded anglers. This could be a long post, so I'm going to bullet point most of it;

My sole point of this post in summary - The intrinsic issue is ALL of us, as anglers and the constant refuelling of rhetoric which diverts us from focussing on the real cause of the problem. The native fish demise we have 'right now' is from decades of poorly implemented waterways strategy and infrastructure, plus the lack of adequate, sustained funding and management. Even the NCCP have openly stated this. As a large voice, anglers should be focussing on THIS as the origin of the current problem. If we could wipe out Carp from Australia tomorrow, the current poor quality water bodies would still exist and continue to impact natives.

* When anglers talk about "the demise of native fish", we're predominantly focussed on Murray Cod and Perch species.
* These native predators are particularly vulnerable to low quality waters and depleted oxygen levels - we've seen the evidence.
* If turbidity was really impacting predatory fish ability to locate prey, why are introduced Redfin and Trout so prevalent?
* Carp are hardy and can survive in poor quality water - natives struggle and the balance is tipped when there aren't enough predators. Carp do not behave in a way to actively push out native species to preserve their own success. It's simply survival of the fittest in non-favourable conditions for some natives.
* Carp are particularly fecund but if you think the hundreds of small fish in the margins of lakes are all carp fry, they are more likely to be the introduced Gambusia - so let's put that misconception to bed.
* Carp feeding behaviour is not the cause of turbidity. This is absurd, as is "Carp breakdown the banks". I've been fishing for 40years in both UK, Europe and Aus. Most of the UK/Europe waters I've fished were almost gin clear, even with a large number of carp. The difference is - (wait for it) - managed fisheries.
* Carp competing with predatory natives for food is also absurd. If competition for food is such a key impact, why are non-native, predatory trout continually introduced and non-native Redfin are not targeted as the the villains. Also on the get out of jail list are non-native Roach and bottom feeding non-native Tench get the thumbs up because they look good (they also filter feed silt)! My point here is that the continual chatter about 'evil' carp from anglers and angling bodies is totally contradictory.
* It's irrefutable that whatever measures are employed to control Carp, we will never fully irradiate them. They have been present for so long that its totally feasible to say that they are now naturalised.
* As said earlier in this thread, mass death of Carp in a short period will result in more harm to water quality and thus, natives than any advantage. We could destroy entire ecosystems and I just can't see a cleanup program being operable. The whole virus concept is nothing more than political.

INTERVAL...So, as a body of anglers, do we want to continue down the path of accepting more dodgy attempts to treat 'noxious' species (which is a history of monumental cock ups) or divert Govt focus and public spending to actually implement genuine, effective programs to improve the quality of our water bodies?

Like we all know deep down, Carp are here to stay, so let's intelligently put them to work and create revenue, rather than keep wasting public money and increasing environmental risk. HOW ABOUT THIS INSTEAD?

A Federal program to establish club managed and private commercial fisheries at viable, existing waterbodies, under Govt license or lease, that follow a standard ecological and public liability management plan. These can be seed funded by Govt or developed by private companies and revenue gained through day tickets, memberships or syndicates. This is not a new concept...this is a multi-million pound/euro industry in the UK and most of Europe. This will inject money into communities, create jobs and share the accountability for healthy, well maintained waterways - which frankly, I don't think is something that the Govt is or could manage on its own. It's a self-sustaining, economy boosting industry just waiting to happen in many parts of Australia, with advantages across the board from landowners to tackle/bait suppliers and peripheral businesses that can setup alongside the fisheries. What would you prefer? Heading to your favourite lake with properly maintained swims/pegs and just that little bit more security or, tripping over the heaps of discarded rubbish that's become a permanent feature on the banks?

This shared/more widespread management of water bodies will free up Govt resources to then focus on the major basins, narrow the target field and make the problem smaller than it currently is. I think harvesting the major basins is the all-round, most controlled method of reducing numbers while supporting the Carp products industry and then implementing water quality infrastructure programs for the long term. We'll still have Carp in Aus but we'll likely see an increase in natives as a result of an intelligent approach.

So, where do the Carp become a positive? For anglers to spend money, there has to be a compelling reason. Believe me, there are more than enough Aus anglers around that actually seek out really big Carp - and not just to bash them on the head. There is a entire sub-culture of anglers overseas that are generating a huge amount of revenue as they don't mind spending their hard earned on catching specimen carp - I believe that same sub-culture is already bubbling under the surface in Aus. Managed fisheries (in the most part, those that do not connect to the major basins) could be home to both the big Carp AND natives, while the smaller fish are harvested for other industries (which is a key policy of managed fisheries overseas). A bounty on relocating quality Carp is more than feasible to stock managed fisheries as long as relocated fish can be incubated for a period, to prevent disease/parasite transmission wiping out stock.

FOOTNOTE: I can't finish without a well deserved serve of 'take a good look at ourselves'. The banter about 'mud marlins' is frankly alarming. No matter what animal, none should be subjected to cruelty and I have witnessed shocking behaviour from some anglers when dealing with Carp. The banter is seemingly innocent and throwaway, but with comments like "the only good Carp is a dead Carp" and "Spent the day killing off the bastards", what are we actually teaching younger anglers? I've seen Carp get hung up and stoned, flapping around while impaled on sticks and on one occassion rattling violently inside a public bin. It's totally unacceptable and we're fuelling this behaviour with the 'war on Carp' attitude. I'm not referring to anyone commenting in this thread but the same old crap runs all the way through most if not all the fishing forums. Take a deeper look at this whole Carp issue - they are not the cause of native fish demise...human influenced conditions put us where we are now.

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:03 am
by 4liters
Sounds like you’ve made up your mind that you don’t want carp to be killed and invented a bunch of ‘facts’ to support your narrative.

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:50 am
by Seniorfisho
OkeyDokey wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:42 am
I've thoroughly read each comment in this thread before deciding to add my opinion. @Truedogz - I tip my hat to you for your intelligent, researched contribution. However, THE major point is missing from this whole Australia wide debate on carp. I'm going to irritate some people BUT I'm possibly going to gain some likeminded anglers. This could be a long post, so I'm going to bullet point most of it;

My sole point of this post in summary - The intrinsic issue is ALL of us, as anglers and the constant refuelling of rhetoric which diverts us from focussing on the real cause of the problem. The native fish demise we have 'right now' is from decades of poorly implemented waterways strategy and infrastructure, plus the lack of adequate, sustained funding and management. Even the NCCP have openly stated this. As a large voice, anglers should be focussing on THIS as the origin of the current problem. If we could wipe out Carp from Australia tomorrow, the current poor quality water bodies would still exist and continue to impact natives.

* When anglers talk about "the demise of native fish", we're predominantly focussed on Murray Cod and Perch species.
* These native predators are particularly vulnerable to low quality waters and depleted oxygen levels - we've seen the evidence.
* If turbidity was really impacting predatory fish ability to locate prey, why are introduced Redfin and Trout so prevalent?
* Carp are hardy and can survive in poor quality water - natives struggle and the balance is tipped when there aren't enough predators. Carp do not behave in a way to actively push out native species to preserve their own success. It's simply survival of the fittest in non-favourable conditions for some natives.
* Carp are particularly fecund but if you think the hundreds of small fish in the margins of lakes are all carp fry, they are more likely to be the introduced Gambusia - so let's put that misconception to bed.
* Carp feeding behaviour is not the cause of turbidity. This is absurd, as is "Carp breakdown the banks". I've been fishing for 40years in both UK, Europe and Aus. Most of the UK/Europe waters I've fished were almost gin clear, even with a large number of carp. The difference is - (wait for it) - managed fisheries.
* Carp competing with predatory natives for food is also absurd. If competition for food is such a key impact, why are non-native, predatory trout continually introduced and non-native Redfin are not targeted as the the villains. Also on the get out of jail list are non-native Roach and bottom feeding non-native Tench get the thumbs up because they look good (they also filter feed silt)! My point here is that the continual chatter about 'evil' carp from anglers and angling bodies is totally contradictory.
* It's irrefutable that whatever measures are employed to control Carp, we will never fully irradiate them. They have been present for so long that its totally feasible to say that they are now naturalised.
* As said earlier in this thread, mass death of Carp in a short period will result in more harm to water quality and thus, natives than any advantage. We could destroy entire ecosystems and I just can't see a cleanup program being operable. The whole virus concept is nothing more than political.

INTERVAL...So, as a body of anglers, do we want to continue down the path of accepting more dodgy attempts to treat 'noxious' species (which is a history of monumental cock ups) or divert Govt focus and public spending to actually implement genuine, effective programs to improve the quality of our water bodies?

Like we all know deep down, Carp are here to stay, so let's intelligently put them to work and create revenue, rather than keep wasting public money and increasing environmental risk. HOW ABOUT THIS INSTEAD?

A Federal program to establish club managed and private commercial fisheries at viable, existing waterbodies, under Govt license or lease, that follow a standard ecological and public liability management plan. These can be seed funded by Govt or developed by private companies and revenue gained through day tickets, memberships or syndicates. This is not a new concept...this is a multi-million pound/euro industry in the UK and most of Europe. This will inject money into communities, create jobs and share the accountability for healthy, well maintained waterways - which frankly, I don't think is something that the Govt is or could manage on its own. It's a self-sustaining, economy boosting industry just waiting to happen in many parts of Australia, with advantages across the board from landowners to tackle/bait suppliers and peripheral businesses that can setup alongside the fisheries. What would you prefer? Heading to your favourite lake with properly maintained swims/pegs and just that little bit more security or, tripping over the heaps of discarded rubbish that's become a permanent feature on the banks?

This shared/more widespread management of water bodies will free up Govt resources to then focus on the major basins, narrow the target field and make the problem smaller than it currently is. I think harvesting the major basins is the all-round, most controlled method of reducing numbers while supporting the Carp products industry and then implementing water quality infrastructure programs for the long term. We'll still have Carp in Aus but we'll likely see an increase in natives as a result of an intelligent approach.

So, where do the Carp become a positive? For anglers to spend money, there has to be a compelling reason. Believe me, there are more than enough Aus anglers around that actually seek out really big Carp - and not just to bash them on the head. There is a entire sub-culture of anglers overseas that are generating a huge amount of revenue as they don't mind spending their hard earned on catching specimen carp - I believe that same sub-culture is already bubbling under the surface in Aus. Managed fisheries (in the most part, those that do not connect to the major basins) could be home to both the big Carp AND natives, while the smaller fish are harvested for other industries (which is a key policy of managed fisheries overseas). A bounty on relocating quality Carp is more than feasible to stock managed fisheries as long as relocated fish can be incubated for a period, to prevent disease/parasite transmission wiping out stock.

FOOTNOTE: I can't finish without a well deserved serve of 'take a good look at ourselves'. The banter about 'mud marlins' is frankly alarming. No matter what animal, none should be subjected to cruelty and I have witnessed shocking behaviour from some anglers when dealing with Carp. The banter is seemingly innocent and throwaway, but with comments like "the only good Carp is a dead Carp" and "Spent the day killing off the bastards", what are we actually teaching younger anglers? I've seen Carp get hung up and stoned, flapping around while impaled on sticks and on one occassion rattling violently inside a public bin. It's totally unacceptable and we're fuelling this behaviour with the 'war on Carp' attitude. I'm not referring to anyone commenting in this thread but the same old crap runs all the way through most if not all the fishing forums. Take a deeper look at this whole Carp issue - they are not the cause of native fish demise...human influenced conditions put us where we are now.
You seem like a frustrated course fisherman

Re: Carp Virus

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 8:28 am
by smokin_reels
One virus at a time?