River Murray

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Herpesriver
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River Murray

Post by Herpesriver » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:21 pm

Hi fellow freshies
Can somebody post a picture on here of the Murray after the locks were built where the water is clear, with some sort of proof of course, thanks :thumbsup:

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Truedogz
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Re: River Murray

Post by Truedogz » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:22 pm

Herpesriver wrote:Hi fellow freshies
Can somebody post a picture on here of the Murray after the locks were built where the water is clear, with some sort of proof of course, thanks :thumbsup:
Mate, you are clearly a troll. You joined this site with the name of "Herpesriver" , put a provocative posting in the thread on the carp virus, and now are looking for information to dispute that carp have had a negative impact on waterways.

Instead of being a coward, tell us who you are! Are you associated with this site:

chrome-extension://klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg/suspended.html#ttl=Australian%20National%20Carp%20Control%20Plan%20-%20Discussion%20Page%20-%20Home%20%7C%20Facebook&uri=https://www.facebook.com/auscarpplandis ... cation=ufi

Or are you a member of the Koi association?

I don't have a problem with people with dissenting views, but I have a big problem with people who act dishonestly and by stealth.

So how about being up front and telling us about yourself. Do you go fishing? Have you got any fishing reports?

For the record, I have the best collection in this country of historical records of the Murray River and excellent photographs of it dating back to the 1860s. I am the first to say that sometimes carp have been blamed for things they are not primarily responsible for. But there is an excellent body of evidence as to their negative impact. I witnessed myself their arrival in numbers and the changes that occured - for example the loss of aquatic vegetation in lagoons. Were you around back then?

I am certainly not going to provide information to be used in an underhanded manner.

Also, for the record, I DO NOT support the current proposal for the release of the virus - not for ideological reasons but because there are some significant issues which have not been properly thought through.

Truedogz

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hornet
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Re: River Murray

Post by hornet » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:36 pm

Your right Truedogz ! ... he has 6 posts and all the same type of questions, he definitely has a hidden agenda.
He who has the most fishing rods WINS ! :ts:

smokin_reels
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Re: River Murray

Post by smokin_reels » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:52 pm

Clearly doesnt believe in buying dinner first...


:rofl:


what a troll.
There is always more to learn , fish to catch , places to see and friends to make.

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Re: River Murray

Post by Thomassssss » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:12 pm

Well said Truedogz, I doubt you’ll get a response, and if I’m proven wrong I’m sure it will only serve to make him look like more of an idiot.

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Re: River Murray

Post by barra mick » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:34 pm

Supurb work truedogs.

Bm

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Re: River Murray

Post by Chaba » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:53 pm

Love your work Truedogz :a_goodjob:

Herpesriver
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Re: River Murray

Post by Herpesriver » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:20 am

Apologies truedogz for coming across as a troll

Am nothing to do with koi, I'm from s.a....i fish the murray for carp and catfish and usually go to mildura for more natives as they're pretty scarce around here :(
My concern is the virus they want to dump in the murray and I've been to 2 nccp forums.
They start with poll which determines whos there which wastes 15 minutes but you couldn't interject and the QandA was restricted to about 20 minutes .
Understandably they went on about how good it was and played down the dangers, ..this forum is something they had to do but clearly didn't want any opposition on the information they were peddling out .
Their main thrust was a wetlands trial where they had a before and after shot when they had removed most of the carp and it was relatively clear but this didn't take into account a river situation where you have issues like farming/land clearing/pesticides/run off/riverside vineyards/urbanisation, marinas etc. and anything else I've forgot, the result was people expect the river to be hunky dory and crystal clear rather than look at the bigger picture.
To there credit the attending crowd did point out the main issue with the virus, that being the clean up. At the goolwa meeting they said there will be a stage by stage clean up with teams of men ready to go to wherever the fish were dead and remove them from the water, 6 weeks later at the mannum meeting they said ...in mr barwicks words "we won't be removing any carp from sparsely populated areas" that is about 95% of the river !!
We all know this virus will undoubtedly get out of control and the huge amount of dead carp will destroy the river, i know this is a worst case scenario but thats what you've got to take into account.
I would like to see carp numbers reduced but this is not the way to go about it

On my initial question i have tried to find pics of the crystal clear murray after the locks were completed without luck from talking to people and different forums like total natives etc.
Any ideas ?

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Re: River Murray

Post by DougieK » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:01 am

Truedogz wrote:things
Total pwnage. Superb.
Chasing LBG and sharing a love for the Martial Arts, everywhere, all the time.


LBG Season 2023/4 :

Kingfish : 61

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Re: River Murray

Post by Truedogz » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:40 pm

Herpesriver wrote:Apologies truedogz for coming across as a troll
If you weren't a troll you'd introduce yourself, you'd pm people,etc prior to introducing such provocative posts.
Herpesriver wrote:On my initial question i have tried to find pics of the crystal clear murray after the locks were completed without luck
I have literally hundreds of photos of the Murray River dating back to c1860 plus numerous documents, newspapers and other historical accounts. Yes, I have photos plus contemporary accounts demonstrating conclusively sections of the Murray being 'clear' both before and after the locks were built. Despite regular requests I no longer provide anything to anyone. You seem to be suggesting that the construction of the locks resulted in a loss of clarity in the river. How? By what mechanism? Is it the locks themselves or other things?

In a nutshell through time a series of changes caused the decline in water quality in the river, and some in fact predate the building of locks. The historical evidence is that several things including carp have contributed to a stepwise decline.
Herpesriver wrote:Their main thrust was a wetlands trial where they had a before and after shot when they had removed most of the carp and it was relatively clear but this didn't take into account a river situation where you have issues like farming/land clearing/pesticides/run off/riverside vineyards/urbanisation, marinas etc. and anything else I've forgot
Your logic is flawed here, that evidence is actually very good. In that scenario despite the prevailing conditions of "farming/land clearing/pesticides/run off/riverside vineyards/urbanisation, marinas etc" the water was clearer when the carp were excluded. Simple as that. The only question is would the water have been even clearer without the other factors? In fairness, taking the results of an exclusion experiment in a billabong and applying it to huge river is a stretch but the fact is the experiment clearly illustrated the potential impacts of carp on water quality.
Herpesriver wrote:We all know this virus will undoubtedly get out of control and the huge amount of dead carp will destroy the river, i know this is a worst case scenario but thats what you've got to take into account.
There are some serious issues with the proposed release of the virus some of which are not being publicly debated - one of them is that in quite a few situations the virus isn't going to work. Other things in the long run might negate its ability to control carp and there could be the result of little gain for the negative impacts. There are some other impacts such as a potential redfin explosion which aren't being raised. An integrated control approach combining several prongs including the virus would be the best in the long term but there is a rush to get the virus out there rather than taking a longer term approach. Releasing the virus in haste might turn out to be an opportunity lost.

Another furphy being thrown up is that the cod and yellas will starve when the carp are gone. That is nonsense as populations of small native fish will rebound once they are gone - that is a key reason for wanting to get rid carp, to restore populations of smaller native fish.

Carp have been blamed for all of the problems in the Murray but are only in part responsible. The greatest negative impact of carp is not the muddying of water - that occurs mostly when densities are high in confined waters like billabongs. Freshwater catfish feed in a similar fashion to carp (but don't usually uproot plants) and can muddy water. They just don't have the reproductive capacity that carp do. The biggest impact is competition for food. That huge biomass of carp, if they weren't there would be present in the form of smelt, gudgeons, bony bream and in part large angling species. For that reason alone carp should be eradicated. People have suggested that we should harvest carp commercially but that is impractical. You can do it in larger waterways but they are spread over a large area in smaller streams making it commercially unviable.
Herpesriver wrote:this forum is something they had to do but clearly didn't want any opposition on the information they were peddling out
You have that part correct. My experience over a long period is that some scientist/managers will go to any length to realise their objectives - including misleading the public and bullying. They often work by stealth and you can never be certain of what their real aim is. Any commitments, even in writing, are worthless. Collectively there is a gross lack of integrity not just from those that are poorly behaved but also from their colleagues in the freshwater fisheries/conservation area who don't take action against them - utter cowards. Collectively they surround themselves with sycophants and don't tolerate healthy and respectful discussion if there is any dissent from the desired narrative. I am not just the only person that has such opinions; many of us who have particpated in this area over a long period share them.

There is also a large entourage of hangers on milking the tax payer - look at all the promotional staff associated with the project, celebrities, kiddies clips, etc. There has even been research undertaken on the female perspective on carp, the indigenous perspective of carp etc. And then we have a carp app! What is lacking is some research in other critical areas.

I have little doubt the virus will be released. All the 'consultation' is spin so that those involved can cover their a*rses whatever the result - as I indicated the power brokers work by stealth. Compare that to the scientists involved with the introduction of myxomatosis - they were upfront, confident in their research and when there were public doubts about its safety they injected themselves with the virus to prove their point. Contrary to what the media says most efforts in biological control in this country have been successful, but rarely have they achieved overwhelming control of the target.

Truedogz

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