Covid-19 discussion

[FishnMiss]

I guess what would Elon Musk know right?
https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/elon ... rus-cases/

And for geniuses saying not to quote or use youtube as a source which Governments, professionals, artists and all Companies use is a joke especially when quoting Washing Post who's had to do a number of retractions plus they have received advertising revenue from China.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/08/chin ... gton-post/

So I hope some are reasonably intellgent to know not everything on Youtube (Google's pet) is legitimate, just like news articles etc Globally and one has to do a fair amount of cross checking.
Sadly based on comments on here not many appear to want to have to think for themselves but would rather go with the media or Global Narrative being parroted globally.

[FishnMiss]

I dare not comment in the above utter stupidity and monumental misinformation. Remove this post and the person posting it.

Exactley how Google/youtube, Facebook, Twitter and Left Wing groups respond, rather than have open dialogue, because they have an agenda and know that the truth would be a disaster (Which I'm not saying about you).

I guess some must really love CCP China and Russia with their Draconian controls.
Don't worry, the way everything is going Australia is becoming like that.

I'd also be interested to read your eloquent rebuttals to my comments.
Perhaps you could cite some non paid to play Peer Reviewed Medical Papers?

By the way, I did not start this discussion and if this is strictly fishing then so be it, it needs to be only 100% fishing.
Just because people see things from a different perspective to another, does not necessarily mean either is wrong.
Both sides (or more) may contain elements of truth and that is where healthy dialogue comes in to find a common middle ground.

[cobby]

So one needs to ask the question, How many people have not died from Influenza as a result of these measures? Hopefully Thousands.

ABS stats released the other week showed an above average spike pre April, and a drop after until data point ended. And in all likelihood that fall continued when the next data set is released. Average death rate is 30 per week from influenza and pneumonia.

[4liters]

I dare not comment in the above utter stupidity and monumental misinformation. Remove this post and the person posting it.

Exactley how Google/youtube, Facebook, Twitter and Left Wing groups respond, rather than have open dialogue, because they have an agenda and know that the truth would be a disaster (Which I'm not saying about you).

I guess some must really love CCP China and Russia with their Draconian controls.
Don't worry, the way everything is going Australia is becoming like that.

I'd also be interested to read your eloquent rebuttals to my comments.
Perhaps you could cite some non paid to play Peer Reviewed Medical Papers?

By the way, I did not start this discussion and if this is strictly fishing then so be it, it needs to be only 100% fishing.
Just because people see things from a different perspective to another, does not necessarily mean either is wrong.
Both sides (or more) may contain elements of truth and that is where healthy dialogue comes in to find a common middle ground.

It's impossible to have an open dialogue with utterly cooked individuals like yourself. It turns into a mess of shifting goalposts, logical fallacies and holding up random youtube hacks as some sort of authority figure. I've had these arguments before and nothing convinces people, it has become a religion. The scientific method and the peer review system which underpin almost the entirety of our technological development since the Age of Enlightenment mean nothing to people like you despite what it has achieved, and good, painstaking research gets handwaved away because it contradicts what some completely unaccountable blog or youtube idiot says.

Some guy saying something doesn't make it true, it takes research, experimentation, statistical analysis of the results and multiple lines of evidence. I am yet to see anything like that from anyone promoting the sort of conspiracies you're peddling. Occasionally you see an attempt at research but they're invariably tiny samples, not chosen at random or flawed in some other way that renders them meaningless.

It wouldn't be so bad, except this kind of misinformation costs lives. Again that wouldn't be so bad if it only killed the idiots who indulge in it, however kids who have no say in the matter are usually the ones who suffer the most. You don't find too many antivaxers among parents who have lost a child to the measles.

It also affects the economy; the government for all their faults has highlighted the issue of people refusing to get tested or thinking this is all some sort of hoax. The longer idiots believe that crap the harder it will be to get this latest outbreak under control and the more businesses will go under with the subsequent loss of jobs and livelihoods. Conservative idiots in the US refusing to wear masks are another prime example.

People forget that 200 years ago 1 in 10 children did not reach adulthood because smallpox killed them. A vaccine stopped that and was eventually used to eradicate probably the most lethal disease known to man. This is the sort of thing antivaxers are railing against.

[4liters]

I guess what would Elon Musk know right?
https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/elon ... rus-cases/

And for geniuses saying not to quote or use youtube as a source which Governments, professionals, artists and all Companies use is a joke especially when quoting Washing Post who's had to do a number of retractions plus they have received advertising revenue from China.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/08/chin ... gton-post/

So I hope some are reasonably intellgent to know not everything on Youtube (Google's pet) is legitimate, just like news articles etc Globally and one has to do a fair amount of cross checking.
Sadly based on comments on here not many appear to want to have to think for themselves but would rather go with the media or Global Narrative being parroted globally.

Did you actually read your Elon Musk link? He's just pulled that **** out of thin air with zero evidence.



Aside from that, Musk is an addled billionaire who has little to do with the actual design of the rockets and cars his businesses make. That's one of the joys of being a billionaire, you can just throw money at people far smarter than you are. He's not actually that smart, and he's not someone I'd hold up as any kind of authority on much other than crony capitalism.


If you disregard anything that has received advertising revenue from China you wouldn't be getting any news at all.

Retracting articles is good, it's a sign the outlet is accountable for what they're publishing. Will that mad chef ever retract any of the nonsense he's dribbling? Not a chance? Will some new age mummy blogger retract a post on social media? I highly doubt it. One of the things I think is great about peer reviewed research papers is that they are withdrawn if they're found to be fraudulent or based on poorly designed experiments. You can see them all here: https://retractionwatch.com/

Again, there's perfectly good content on YouTube, the trouble is people like yourself don't seem to check the qualifications of the people producing it.

One of the most informative channels out there is This Week In Virology: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/
The hosts are virologists and microbiologists with many years of research and study under their belt. They interview people on the coalface, researchers working on treatments and vaccines, medical staff copping the brunt of this thing in the hospitals, the people trying to research and understand how this virus works and what it does to us. Much much better than some self proclaimed expert who simultaneously believes it's just the flu and also an escaped Chinese bioweapon.

I've probably said this before but one thing that really frustrates me is that we live in an age of such utter privilege compared to any other time in human history when it comes to access to cutting edge information, education, literacy and so on. 200 years ago you were very lucky if you were taught how to read, write and count as a kid. Now we have the very latest research on any topic you can dream up just a few clicks away. You can listen to some of the sharpest minds alive give talks on their areas of expertise. Yet despite that access we seem to have more and more people circling the drain into pseudoscience and conspiracy theories; it's the cognitive equivalent of burning a pile of money or something.

[Troy McLure]

The problem it seems is there is too much information available and it can become a nightmare to sift through to and find what you’re looking for. Also I think people take advantage of the amount of information and use it to back up their already preconceived thoughts on any such matter.
I think Fishinmiss is right to question everything on here or in the media, we all should. So much stuff in the media is ripped off from some other article or statistics are cherry picked and then passed off as legitimate. Dougie has previously said that you need to constantly fact check what you’re reading and I agree totally but that is so time consuming and therefore is rarely done I’d say.
In regards to vaccinations, I’m all for them but God knows what these chemicals are and the possible side effects are . Just another can of worms.
This is a good thread though.

[laneends]

I think Fishinmiss is right to question everything on here or in the media, we all should. So much stuff in the media is ripped off from some other article or statistics are cherry picked and then passed off as legitimate.

Agreed but to go the other way and dismiss everything as a fog of miss information is just as delusional. The reality is the meat of truth is out there its just hidden amongst all the fat of embellishments and agendas. Dismissing everything is just as foolish as accepting everything.

4 litres is correct you just got to clarity who is citing what and who is regurgitating quick grab headlines or agendas. Even the "experts" dont know everything they are just more likely to be closer to the truth, or at least a best interpretation of it. Hindsight is the only true authority, but its all new, so obviously we dont have it

Statements of the flu has killed more than Covid is just dumb, because that is the first goal to keep it manageable. The reality is if Covid gets out of control it can do way more damage than the regular flu ever could. The sooner this is achieved then the sooner "elective" surgery can catch up.

There are also people getting tested for covid like systems who come up negative but they are then picked up with whatever other underlying sickness that is actually causing those symptoms eg flu, COPD etc, which they otherwise would have dismissed. It is overriding the "she'll be right mate" approach to feeling sick and getting folks to the drs who otherwise wouldnt bother.

[4liters]

The problem it seems is there is too much information available and it can become a nightmare to sift through to and find what you’re looking for. Also I think people take advantage of the amount of information and use it to back up their already preconceived thoughts on any such matter.

There is a lot of information out there. You want to be as close to the raw data as possible ideally. That means looking at the agencies and researchers who are compiling and analysing the statistics as they come available. Google Scholar is a good place to start for scientific research on a topic, but there are blogs like The Conversation and that TWIV podcast where you have the research scientists discussing their fields in a more easy to understand language. Wikipedia gets a bad name at universities but I'm yet to see anything completely inaccurate or misleading there. The drawback is that anybody can hop on and edit it though so take it for what it is. It's good for getting a general overview of a topic or terminology.

I think Fishinmiss is right to question everything on here or in the media, we all should. So much stuff in the media is ripped off from some other article or statistics are cherry picked and then passed off as legitimate. Dougie has previously said that you need to constantly fact check what you’re reading and I agree totally but that is so time consuming and therefore is rarely done I’d say.

It is a very good idea to question things. The irony of conspiracy theorists is that they never actually question the fevered material they're pushing on others. Science in the broadest sense is the constant questioning of our current understandings. Each experiment or study is a challenge to the ones that have come before, and what we consider to be 'fact' evolves over time. That isn't the end of it though, to get published scientific research needs to be peer reviewed - essentially a couple of experts in that field go through it with a extremely fine toothed comb and challenge pretty much every aspect of it from the experiment design to the statistical analysis of the results. They will usually insist on some changes before it is approved for publication. Finally once the research is published it is held up for scrutiny by the wider scientific community. There was a good example of this when a rushed antibody study was published and a number of scientists discovered flaws in it, and eventually it was adjusted to fix them: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ ... 210149.php

So you can see there's multiple layers of checks and balances and a lot of questioning taking place. No scientist would say it's perfect, rubbish still gets through like the fraudulent autism/vaccine paper but there is far more accountability than pretty much anything else I know of. The solution isn't to shitcan the whole thing though, it is to understand where it can fall down and how to identify when it might have.

In regards to vaccinations, I’m all for them but God knows what these chemicals are and the possible side effects are . Just another can of worms.
This is a good thread though.

The great irony with the autism/vaccine controversy is that the guy who started it was applying for a patent for his own vaccine which would be a commercial rival to the MMR vaccine his paper criticised. If the consequences weren't so serious it would be hilarious that all these conspiracy theorists who style themselves as hard nosed truth seekers and supposedly question everything were played like a fiddle by... Big Pharma itself. It gets a bit sad when you see them latching on to Russian state propaganda on 5G from RT as well. Then there's the conspiracies spread by the Republican Party in the US, a party that exists solely to entrench the interests of big businesses of all stripes over those of individuals.

Anyway that isn't to say vaccines are flawless, there was a bad Swine Flu vaccine made in the 70s that caused some bad side effects in some people. And there are problems with the rushed approach to the current covid vaccine candidates which are a genuine cause for concern, not because all vaccines are bad but because there's a lot of corners being cut and the steps normally in place to ensure safety are being rushed due to the time pressure to get a vaccine ready.

[Troy McLure]

Most likely the truth is there but hidden amongst a million different opinions and statistics but my point is to question what we’re being fed about Covid. Anything for that matter. Fishinmiss is giving a different perspective and it might seem a bit out there but it’s worth looking at before discarding it. The biggest danger in all of this and I’m not saying it’s happening on this forum is just falling into line and believing everything that you’re told to believe. That used to be me but the older I get the more suspicious I’m becoming of media, Government and corporations with something to lose.

[FishnMiss]

So, I'm not sure where this Conspiracy theory nonsense keeps coming from?
I am trying to get us all to look at this vile Disease from every angle, whether man made, accidental or just naturally occurring.
You will note, I have never denied the existence of this Virus, as mentioned before having seen how it has devastated a mate's family (it also took out his elderley mother in law).
I'm frustrated (& hopefully you all are too) that it seems like the health experts are at a loss and many just keep attacking those trying to put forward solutions.
I shared the article regarding Chloroquine as that is just one of many cases in point, and my personal opinion is probably because Trump (whether you like him or not) suggested it and there has been significant evidence to show it's effectiveness especially during the early stages.
Even the World renowned Lancet Medical Journal after causing Global trials to cease due to highly corrupted data being provided, had to issue a retraction but sadly more damage was done.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... his-happen

What I'm saying is, we need to work together to come up with a manageable workable solution to protect those at risk and get our country back on it's feet.
Mostly what we are seeing is communities divided, hatred rising, intolerance, people Dobbing others in without the real facts.
Personally based on what DrFauci said and the U.S Surgeon General said, "Masks aren't effective", we need to be cautious how we proceed with forcing everyone to wear a mask, as there are also other studies showing complications from over use of masks, too much touching or repositioning etc.
If I'm required to wear one, so be it but I then expect the Health authorities to provide each of us one (or more) than offers best protection without limiting air flow both ways.

I have never said kids can't get Covid, or healthy people but the overwhelming evidence shows kids if infected generally have zero to minimal negative side effects by this virus if they get it, and yes some may get very sick & some may die.
(Funny how you bash me when I can show facts that kids (& some adults) die or are damaged after receiving a vaccine and some even say,"It's only isolated incidences etc", yet when I mention how low the death rate is from Covid, then I'm trashed).

As I have said before,quoting Global Experts, they say there may never be a vaccine that can actually counter this virus. A Vaccine/s may help somewhat but there's no guarantee.
That is why experts (and there are many of them) are advocating for the "Herd Immunity" principle, while endeavoring to protect those at risk. Who is right, well it depends on who you are only willing to listen to.

I apologise to those who took offence at my post yesterday but I still believe we need the CDC, WHO etc to be honest about the true numbers detected and reported.
Report Pure Covid Deaths, those with Comorbidities,those that recover etc.

If you want people to trust you, then you need to be able to acknowledge there were/are errors made, or we aren't quite sure but we are throwing everything at this as a collective Global team including all parties, sadly that has not been the case.