Back in lockdown again.

[DougieK]

As I understand, Israel was Pfizer's second choice for rolling out their vaccine and were approached after we knocked them back but Israel has definitely ordered vaccines from other suppliers than Pfizer. It would be strange (but I guess not impossible) for Pfizer to approach Australia with one set of terms but offer Israel something so significantly different. It also seems unusual that given Pfizer had received no safety data or regulatory approval for their vaccine at the time that they would stop countries entering into agreements with other vaccine suppliers. Again, not impossible, and maybe there was more too it including contingencies should the vaccine have shortcomings but it does seem unlikely to me.

An interesting snippet I found while trying to find out information about the Pfizer rollout in Israel, apparently Israel justified the cost by saying it was the same cost to the country as just 2 days of lockdown. Smaller population than Australia but I assume it would scale up to be roughly the same here.

Oh, I think it's entirely possible that Truedogz source is accurate, it is exactly the kind of nonsense you'd expect. But if it were, I think Scotty from marketing would have been howling it since the MW article came out. Ofcourse you need to consider that since he didnt' even bother speaking to them he might be completely unaware.

[4liters]

As I understand, Israel was Pfizer's second choice for rolling out their vaccine and were approached after we knocked them back but Israel has definitely ordered vaccines from other suppliers than Pfizer. It would be strange (but I guess not impossible) for Pfizer to approach Australia with one set of terms but offer Israel something so significantly different. It also seems unusual that given Pfizer had received no safety data or regulatory approval for their vaccine at the time that they would stop countries entering into agreements with other vaccine suppliers. Again, not impossible, and maybe there was more too it including contingencies should the vaccine have shortcomings but it does seem unlikely to me.

An interesting snippet I found while trying to find out information about the Pfizer rollout in Israel, apparently Israel justified the cost by saying it was the same cost to the country as just 2 days of lockdown. Smaller population than Australia but I assume it would scale up to be roughly the same here.

Oh, I think it's entirely possible that Truedogz source is accurate, it is exactly the kind of nonsense you'd expect. But if it were, I think Scotty from marketing would have been howling it since the MW article came out. Ofcourse you need to consider that since he didnt' even bother speaking to them he might be completely unaware.

Yeah, and I guess it's also possible that the government is worried it might damage their relationship with Pfizer and are keeping mum about that aspect of the deal. It just seems like the sort of thing that would get leaked to the media by someone involved, and given the amount of detail we do have I'm surprised that wasn't part of it.

[bowl]

Vic =65.5%first dose.
Only 4.5% before I'm back fishing.

[Truedogz]

Oh, I think it's entirely possible that Truedogz source is accurate, it is exactly the kind of nonsense you'd expect.

My source is accurate - a high ranking official in New Zealand Health intimately involved in their vaccine rollout. In fact I'd go so far as to say my source was impeccable. They are not my only source, I've got two here that have supported the story in general and they would know.

I'm obviously not going to reveal their identify or some of the other details they passed on. I would point to the links I have provided about the rollout in NZ, the imbroglio over rights, NZ's support then reversal, and that Pfizer 'offered us' 40 million doses - enough to double vax the expected eligible population all points to the scenario outlined being quite plausible.

If not then try to explain New Zealand's rollout.

As for not hearing about it elsewhere I'm sure quite a few know but won't say anything. In some cases it would be out of concern for jeopardising Australia's vaccine rollout, for others jeopardising their future. For some it is a political opportunity and I include journalists here. The other day I stated my view that NSW had not received any 'secret' benefits in terms of the vaccine rollout and The Age, no fan of the Morrison Government, has reached the same conclusion. My conclusion is that some journalists failed to adequately check their information and others willfully ignored it.

But if it were, I think Scotty from marketing would have been howling it since the MW article came out.

Not when Pfizer still have you by the balls. We still source vaccine from them and might require new versions down the track now that AZ is pretty much out of the running. Obviously, not all of the documents, correspondence have been made public and clearly some of it was to remain confidential at Pfizer's request as reported in their correspondence. None of us know what the current arrangements are.

It would be strange (but I guess not impossible) for Pfizer to approach Australia with one set of terms but offer Israel something so significantly different.

What might have been said in private might not be made public in the interest of all parties whether it is a company such as Pfizer or governments in Israel, New Zealand or Australia. I don't know about Israel but I know what I have been told was put to NZ and oz - and while I'd expect a written agreement for exclusive use of a vaccine would not be signed an undertaking of intent on its use would be the arrangement.

Again, try to explain the NZ rollout - only placed an order for Pfizer in December 2020 (after oz), didn't order Moderna, and J&J and AZ are in the "provisional approval does not mean that we have committed to using" category. Like Australia they later provisionally ordered Novovax (which offered the potential of being the best vaccine) which has been plagued with delays - it will be interesting to see if they roll it out. They might watch what happens elswhere before risking upsetting their current supplier.

Guys, I re-entered the forum to try to provide some better information to members on some of the technical aspects on what is going on. There are a lot of concerned people pretty stressed by the events of the past eighteen months. I think I've got a better background than most on this forum to do so: Biochemist that worked for CSIRO (still maintain my network connections), was mentored by Struan Sutherland of CSL and I have former students of mine directly involved in pcr, genetic engineering, vaccine development and the modelling going on right now. I personally know people at the various institutes in the spotlight at the moment and in a number of advisory groups on this matter. So I think these people at the coalface have a better understanding of these things and some better information than many journos reporting for the Guardian, Sky News or whoever.

My purpose in my posts was to better educate, reassure and bring a better tone to this thread in particular for non-partisan readers. I am not a fan of either the pm or the premier. I haven't said the Morrison Government was blameless in the issues with our vaccine rollout. I think both the pm and the premier have made good calls and poor ones and the virus has found chinks in our defenses due to ideology on both sides of politics. I was once a member of the ALP and at one point was asked to stand for preselection. These days I am a swinging voter but still with a labor heart. I take the view that polarising, partisan politics started destroying the country well before covid and that rational debate has declined as a consequence. Even though I don't think a great deal of Scott Morrison or Daniel Andrews I am prepared to say something when I think the criticism is unfair and think collectively they have done a reasonable job in extraordinary circumstances. Unfortunately people just want to hate the opposite side of politics no matter what.

It was probably a waste of time coming on here but if I have reassured people that it is not all doom and gloom then maybe it was worthwhile.

[Troy McLure]

Not a waste of time at all. I’m surprised Dan hasn’t hired you to explain things better from the government’s point of view. You make more sense than most of the bull that is out there right now that we’re expected to decipher and make judgments on. Keep it coming I say.

[Sebb]

Vic =65.5%first dose.
Only 4.5% before I'm back fishing.

Is it 70% first jab?
Thought it was to get to 70% two jabs

[bowl]

Vic =65.5%first dose.
Only 4.5% before I'm back fishing.

Is it 70% first jab?
Thought it was to get to 70% two jabs

Slight restrictions ease ,10 k radius ect

[ducky]

Does anyone know expected cast distance of a 25 foot rod and a 16oz sinker? I may be able to hit the bay from wells road. Which is about as close as I can get to it.

Or maybe float a pilly down mordy creek?

[bowl]

Does anyone know expected cast distance of a 25 foot rod and a 16oz sinker? I may be able to hit the bay from wells road. Which is about as close as I can get to it.

Or maybe float a pilly down mordy creek?

Lol what's the minimum radius you need for either ppb or wp.

[ducky]

I need 15kms to be able to launch the boat at Patto and fish up to about 7m deep. But in reality I need 60km to fish my usual haunts. Sorrento/corinella. Unfortunately 60 even makes me fall short of fishing Cleeland bight…

Patto can get rooted. Pinkys off black rock is doable with 20kms.

10km gets me to within about 100m of karkarook Eastern side though. So I’ve got that going for me…