2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

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cheaterparts
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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by cheaterparts » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:09 pm

Seb85 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:19 am
Hi all, kinda need more info to add the pros and cons for my decision making.
I've narrowed it down to getting a better kayak around $2000 budget. A small boat was in consideration but the on going costs tipping the balance towards no boat.
while it probably doesn't suit you I think more guys will look at solo skiffs or micro skiffs in the future - one of my fishing mates is now dealing in solo skiffs now - plenty of youtube clips on them if you dont know what they are
another mate is building a mould to produce a slightly larger skiff and I have drawn up one for myself to build as a stitch and glue boat

all of these are light enough to beach launch and for the most part car top
purple5ive wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:17 am

Pros and cons on using a trailer though.

your taking away the versatility of being able to launch a yak almost anywhere there's water if you add a trailer, as you would be limited to where you can park a trailered vehicle.(mainly a problem within the CBD areas)
the main advantage of the yaks is to launch in areas where a boat cannot, and also the ramp fees, the fees are now gone so thats a bonus.

on the other hand, getting a yak up onto the roof racks are not for everyone. besides that if you were in saltwater the water is going to get into the car roof seals and they will rust eventually.
you may be right on parking around the CBD but having car tops quite a few years and now trailered for some time I really haven't found parking to much of a problem

and you are right on rust my first car turned to poo quite quickly with rust after car topping and I know of others that have had rust biting then from the salt on the car
My kayak PBs
Gummy shark 128 Cm - Elephant fish 85 Cm - Snapper 91 Cm - KG Whiting 49 Cm - Flathead 55 Cm - Garfish 47 Cm - Silver Trevally 40 Cm - Long Tail Tuna 86 Cm - snook 64 Cm - Couta 71 Cm - Sth Calamari 44 Cm hood - Cobia 117 cm


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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by purple5ive » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:16 pm

Will the skiffs need to be registered Steve?

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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by Sebb » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:34 pm

purple5ive wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:17 am

Pros and cons on using a trailer though.

your taking away the versatility of being able to launch a yak almost anywhere there's water if you add a trailer, as you would be limited to where you can park a trailered vehicle.(mainly a problem within the CBD areas)
the main advantage of the yaks is to launch in areas where a boat cannot, and also the ramp fees, the fees are now gone so thats a bonus.

on the other hand, getting a yak up onto the roof racks are not for everyone. besides that if you were in saltwater the water is going to get into the car roof seals and they will rust eventually.
Yes, there's pros and cons, can be a long topic on its own.
No trailer atm, as my car doesnt have a tow bar atm. Planning to replace my car next year and will look for a car with tow bar already installed. Then possibly get a trailer.
cheaterparts wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:09 pm

while it probably doesn't suit you I think more guys will look at solo skiffs or micro skiffs in the future - one of my fishing mates is now dealing in solo skiffs now - plenty of youtube clips on them if you dont know what they are
another mate is building a mould to produce a slightly larger skiff and I have drawn up one for myself to build as a stitch and glue boat

all of these are light enough to beach launch and for the most part car top
Wow! First time I've seen it.
But with engine, I will have to pay rego, maintenance, etc. Just like owning a boat but much lighter.
Also over my budget.
mazman wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:58 am
Seb, I would really narrow down what you are going to be doing on the kayak and which features are essential to how you want to fish and go from there. Personally I like hobie's drive system which is why I went with a hobie, then tested out a few different models and decided that the outback was most suited to the way I fish, admittedly I'm a pretty light guy with reasonable balance but I regularly stand up on the outback (this is 2015 model, I believe 2019 or later is more stable again). A few of the retailers do demo days which is a great way to test out a few different models and see how they are for you.

Hobie have just released the new 360 drive that looks incredible but is way outside your budget but look out for some well kitted out hobie's to hit the second hand market when that drops. They also have a new kickup 180 drive that will be fitted to new kayaks which could be worth saving for depending on your intended use.
What tipped the balance for you to decide outback instead of PA or even revolution. Did you also try and compare native kayaks?
Most reviews say slayer13 vs outback, kinda the same level.
Outback is 13' isn't it?

Honestly I just want a stable kayak (with reverse ability) to fish as a top priority. Then space. Speed, length and maneuverability are the least.
I'll be using it the same as you're doing, a bit of bay, rivers for bream/cod and some lakes.
Last edited by Sebb on Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by cheaterparts » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:44 pm

purple5ive wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:16 pm
Will the skiffs need to be registered Steve?
Seb85 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:34 pm
cheaterparts wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:09 pm

while it probably doesn't suit you I think more guys will look at solo skiffs or micro skiffs in the future - one of my fishing mates is now dealing in solo skiffs now - plenty of youtube clips on them if you dont know what they are
another mate is building a mould to produce a slightly larger skiff and I have drawn up one for myself to build as a stitch and glue boat

all of these are light enough to beach launch and for the most part car top
Wow! First time I've seen it.
But with engine, I will have to pay rego, maintenance, etc. Just like owning a boat but much lighter.
Also over my budget.
I think the rules for small electric motors like on a kayak ( 40 lb I think ) theres no need to rego or licence - this would be pretty slow going but outbourd petrol need rego and need to comply with all the std boat rules

I'm planning on a 10 to 15 hp so yes its a boat
My kayak PBs
Gummy shark 128 Cm - Elephant fish 85 Cm - Snapper 91 Cm - KG Whiting 49 Cm - Flathead 55 Cm - Garfish 47 Cm - Silver Trevally 40 Cm - Long Tail Tuna 86 Cm - snook 64 Cm - Couta 71 Cm - Sth Calamari 44 Cm hood - Cobia 117 cm


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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by piscateur » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:55 pm

I own both a 2011 Outback and a Slayer 10, my findings:
• The Hobie mirage drive is more efficient through the water, and faster. (the propel will cavitate after a certain speed)
• I car top both easily without lifting Aids. (PA12, 14, & outback 2019 would be more difficult. Not sure about the slayer 13)
• If u need reverse, the 180 drive is no substitute for the Propel system. (u have to line up the pedals before u can pull the cord to engage reverse, so if u are fishing structure/snag you will probably be pulled in before you can engage reverse, and u may damage rods etc that are loose. If u fish snags a lot I would go the native.
• If u are covering long distances in relatively open water hobie is the go.
• The plastic on the Hobie I feel is thicker and more robust.
• The Slayer 10 does not have a proper cart for transport, u will need to buy a C-Tug so u can store in on board/ in the front hatch whilst fishing, their standard cart doesn’t fit in the hatch .
• You will need to upgrade the rudder for the Slayer 10, this is non negotiable! Mine was an absolute pig before the berleypro upgrades. I have also upgraded to sailing rudder on the outback. I can’t comment on the PAs
• I love the convenience of not having to trailer, as it opens up heaps of options for me.
In summary I love the hobie’s drive for efficiency and speed, u feel it less in your legs. But love the reverse in my Native. As I fish structure Reverse is almost essential for me.

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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by Sebb » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:22 pm

piscateur wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:55 pm
I own both a 2011 Outback and a Slayer 10, my findings:
• The Hobie mirage drive is more efficient through the water, and faster. (the propel will cavitate after a certain speed)
• I car top both easily without lifting Aids. (PA12, 14, & outback 2019 would be more difficult. Not sure about the slayer 13)
• If u need reverse, the 180 drive is no substitute for the Propel system. (u have to line up the pedals before u can pull the cord to engage reverse, so if u are fishing structure/snag you will probably be pulled in before you can engage reverse, and u may damage rods etc that are loose. If u fish snags a lot I would go the native.
• If u are covering long distances in relatively open water hobie is the go.
• The plastic on the Hobie I feel is thicker and more robust.
• The Slayer 10 does not have a proper cart for transport, u will need to buy a C-Tug so u can store in on board/ in the front hatch whilst fishing, their standard cart doesn’t fit in the hatch .
• You will need to upgrade the rudder for the Slayer 10, this is non negotiable! Mine was an absolute pig before the berleypro upgrades. I have also upgraded to sailing rudder on the outback. I can’t comment on the PAs
• I love the convenience of not having to trailer, as it opens up heaps of options for me.
In summary I love the hobie’s drive for efficiency and speed, u feel it less in your legs. But love the reverse in my Native. As I fish structure Reverse is almost essential for me.
Thanks for the info! Makes sense.
How do find the difference in length? Outback is 12'-13' isnt it? And slayer 10 isn't too short and still pretty space-y?

Manta ray 12 is 84cm wide and 32 kg in weight.
Slayer 10 is 86cm wide and 28kg in weight.
Slayer 13 is 84cm wide and 40.4 kg in weight.

I'm a small person (and not very strong). Reckon the 10 is good enough? But its like $2800 brand new.
There's couple slayer 13 second hand for $2500ish (and got extras).
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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by cheaterparts » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:51 pm

Seb85 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:22 pm


Thanks for the info! Makes sense.
How do find the difference in length? Outback is 12'-13' isnt it? And slayer 10 isn't too short and still pretty space-y?

Manta ray 12 is 84cm wide and 32 kg in weight.
Slayer 10 is 86cm wide and 28kg in weight.
Slayer 13 is 84cm wide and 40.4 kg in weight.

I'm a small person (and not very strong). Reckon the 10 is good enough? But its like $2800 brand new.
There's couple slayer 13 second hand for $2500ish (and got extras).
take all those weights with a grain of salt - I'm yet to see any kayak come in on there advertised weight
My kayak PBs
Gummy shark 128 Cm - Elephant fish 85 Cm - Snapper 91 Cm - KG Whiting 49 Cm - Flathead 55 Cm - Garfish 47 Cm - Silver Trevally 40 Cm - Long Tail Tuna 86 Cm - snook 64 Cm - Couta 71 Cm - Sth Calamari 44 Cm hood - Cobia 117 cm


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IRe: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by Tim399 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:51 pm

As long as you don’t have a tall car a PA is actually very easy to car top with a rhino rack’n’roll ($160)
https://www.kayaks2fish.com/rack-roll-k ... e-operator
Im not tall nor big, but I have no trouble loading the PA14 on my rav4. I actually find it easier to load on the roof than my 3.8m cheapy kayak due to the length and shape of the PA, even though it is heavier.

I also have a trailer for the PA and I love it, setting up and packing up is easier, faster and I haven’t found it difficult for parking at launch sites either. However I don’t think I’ll ever fish the CBD area so this suits my needs.

My 2 cents is PAs more commonly come up 2nd hand than the natives, it may be worth buying a PA (at a good price) and if you don’t like it or want something different like a native for the reverse function, keep an eye out for a native to come up 2nd hand and flog the PA off for what you paid for it. Hobies barely lose value over one year (as long as you didn’t buy new or get ripped off)

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Re: IRe: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by Sebb » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:18 pm

Tim399 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:51 pm
As long as you don’t have a tall car a PA is actually very easy to car top with a rhino rack’n’roll ($160)
https://www.kayaks2fish.com/rack-roll-k ... e-operator
Im not tall nor big, but I have no trouble loading the PA14 on my rav4. I actually find it easier to load on the roof than my 3.8m cheapy kayak due to the length and shape of the PA, even though it is heavier.

I also have a trailer for the PA and I love it, setting up and packing up is easier, faster and I haven’t found it difficult for parking at launch sites either. However I don’t think I’ll ever fish the CBD area so this suits my needs.

My 2 cents is PAs more commonly come up 2nd hand than the natives, it may be worth buying a PA (at a good price) and if you don’t like it or want something different like a native for the reverse function, keep an eye out for a native to come up 2nd hand and flog the PA off for what you paid for it. Hobies barely lose value over one year (as long as you didn’t buy new or get ripped off)
Yea thanks.
I was gonna get slayer13, but the weight of it worries me. But yeah, being a good branded etc, probably isn't too bad.
If too heavy, will get either manta ray 12 or slayer10.

I think I might go to capacity sports and have a look, try to lift, etc.
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Re: 2nd hand hobie pa14 vs native watercraft manta ray 12 vs cheap copy

Post by piscateur » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:11 am

Seb85 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:22 pm
Thanks for the info! Makes sense.
How do find the difference in length? Outback is 12'-13' isnt it? And slayer 10 isn't too short and still pretty space-y?

Manta ray 12 is 84cm wide and 32 kg in weight.
Slayer 10 is 86cm wide and 28kg in weight.
Slayer 13 is 84cm wide and 40.4 kg in weight.

I'm a small person (and not very strong). Reckon the 10 is good enough? But its like $2800 brand new.
There's couple slayer 13 second hand for $2500ish (and got extras).
The Slayer 10 is considerably lighter that my Outback, I havet weighed the Yaks to confirm or deny their advertised weights, suffice to say that due to the bulk and generally off centre lifting handles they invariably feel heavier than stated. If u are not very strong or tall the I would suggest the rack and roll, and your car height will matter as well.
I did find issue with the decrease in room from the Outback to the slayer but you'll find a way to deal with it. I have not been in a manta ray or a slayer 13 to comment.
You can always head down to Capacity sport, Natalie (I think that's her name) there is very helpful and service is awesome, I believe they let you take the yaks to Karkarook to try. I reckon the last time I was there they had a Slayer 10 Copy (made by the same company cant remember the name) that was cheaper around $2.5K. Scott Lovig from SLH is awesome to deal with for anything Hobie.
Hobies (make that all yaks haha) may come down in price soon with the release of the new PA with 360, that system looks amazing and blows existing Yaks out of the water in terms of maneuverability.

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