Cost effectiveness

hanboy
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by hanboy » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:43 am

Posted this a while ago on another thread about Stellas, but here goes again...

“I have a few for saltwater, but I do go offshore for the GT popping trips in Vanuatu, PNG, Coral Sea etc. And I did pick most of them up second hand, but to me I guess it's worth it. I still drive a shitbox but that's where I choose to spend my money.

TBH, you can land a fish on almost anything, and I would go as far to say as you can land 80% of fish out there on any gear, but if I've travelled all the way with flights and boats and all that jazz I want to give myself the best possible chance to land the remaining 20%.

Lesson was learnt on my first ever Vanuatu trip I went with a sustain and a saragosa, thinking that that would be sufficient, but the sustain drag (fully locked down) could not stop many of the fish at all and the saragosa rotor shaft stopped moving the spool up and down to get the line lay after a 20kg coral trout (not even a big GT or Dogtooth tuna). And if you're out on a liveaboard there is nowhere to get it fixed or to get a new reel. So there's that. I do know many people personally who use these reels regularly with no issue, but I guess I've just developed a bit of a trust issue now. :rofl:

Question is, do you want to lose a fish of a lifetime on a trip of a lifetime because of gear failure? But again, that's just me. Nobody really NEEDS a Stella, but I'm sure almost everyone secretly wants one. :P Listening to Stella scream is something else. ;-)

Only thing I’d change about this post is after a bit more fishing experience I’d say 70% of fish can be caught with any gear, 10% will not be landed unless you have a winch and steel cable (I have a 6 year and counting feud with Dogtooth Tuna, and they’re still winning), and I’d like to think I’ve spent the money on giving myself a shot at the remaining 20%, if that makes sense.

Plus I agree with Dougie, if you’re casting large poppers or stickbaits at pelagics 8 hours or more a day, every gram does count, but you can’t trade off weight for quality either as feeling a reel seat flex under pressure fighting a fish is not fun, from personal experience.

dezza68
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by dezza68 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:46 am

It’s interesting the amount of drag these expensive reels can produce. When you are fishing land based with longer rods you would be surprised how little drag you can exert. I tried this on a spring balance with my 14ft surf rod, maximum I could impart with braid was 3.5kg and mono was barely 2kg (with 50m of Line out). It’s only in a boat with short rods and a harness that you could put on 20kg of drag. Would be very surprised land based if we could impart half of that.

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4liters
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by 4liters » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:49 am

Yeah I only run 30lb braid on my 14' LB rods for that reason. Theoretically I could safely run 5kg of drag with that line but even that is impossible to manage with a long rod.

Line volume and the ability to wear the fish down is more important I think in that situation.
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by DougieK » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:54 am

4liters wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:49 am
Yeah I only run 30lb braid on my 14' LB rods for that reason. Theoretically I could safely run 5kg of drag with that line but even that is impossible to manage with a long rod.

Line volume and the ability to wear the fish down is more important I think in that situation.
I tied some pulleys up and strung my line through them, managed to apply 10.5kg of drag on the saltist with one of my lethals.

These reels talking about 30kg of drag are 'sometimes' accurate, but realistically you're never going to use more than 15, even in the most extreme conditions. 15kg on a 9 foot rod, with a grip 2 feet up it, is (15 x 4.5) 72.5kg of pressure on the arm holding the rod. I don't know too many people doing single arm seated rows that heavy, and certainly not at any kind of rep range. Also my maths is bad and probably wrong.
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4liters
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by 4liters » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:59 am

DougieK wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:54 am
4liters wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:49 am
Yeah I only run 30lb braid on my 14' LB rods for that reason. Theoretically I could safely run 5kg of drag with that line but even that is impossible to manage with a long rod.

Line volume and the ability to wear the fish down is more important I think in that situation.
I tied some pulleys up and strung my line through them, managed to apply 10.5kg of drag on the saltist with one of my lethals.

These reels talking about 30kg of drag are 'sometimes' accurate, but realistically you're never going to use more than 15, even in the most extreme conditions. 15kg on a 9 foot rod, with a grip 2 feet up it, is (15 x 4.5) 72.5kg of pressure on the arm holding the rod. I don't know too many people doing single arm seated rows that heavy, and certainly not at any kind of rep range. Also my maths is bad and probably wrong.
Maybe there's some use in knowing you're running the drag well within it's specs so in hopefully it stays smooth and doesn't stop working in the middle of a fight, but I think it's mostly because marketing types have worked out most peoples' thought process is "big number = good, bigger number = gooder" even though it has zero practical application.
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by DougieK » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:06 am

4liters wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:59 am


Maybe there's some use in knowing you're running the drag well within it's specs so in hopefully it stays smooth and doesn't stop working in the middle of a fight, but I think it's mostly because marketing types have worked out most peoples' thought process is "big number = good, bigger number = gooder" even though it has zero practical application.

Short of locking up on a king or GT you're never going to use more than 8kg, and never really effectively more than about 5kg. My opinion, but I have quite a bit of experience in using too much drag and pulling hooks on fish.
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by Sebb » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:09 am

I cant dead lift 20kg with one arm, there is no way I'd play tug of war with fully locked 20kg, my arm would snap. Lol.

Last time I went on a charter off Moreton Bay and hooked a small marlin, was on 30lb mackerel gear and probably 10kg drag, my arm couldn't even lift a water bottle after that. Lol. I have skinny arms.

I think its better to use 1/2 the drag, means the reel isnt working too hard, thus last longer.
E.g. good to know that your reel can do 10kg drag max, using mostly 5 kg, the reel will last longer. Rather than using a 5kg drag reel at max all the time.
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by ducky » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:12 am

There’s very few times the average fisho is running more than 3kg of drag imo. Which is well within the range of the good cheap stuff.

Knowing that the overwhelming majority of fish won’t need more than 7-8kg fully locked there is very little need to be fishing with anything better than a saragosa etc for longevity reasons.

Having said that. I started with cheap gear. Bought more expensive gear as time went on. I capped out at around $350 max for reels and these days I’ll buy cheaper stuff.

My motto is pretty much this

If it’s sitting in a rod holder 99% of the time I’m using it. Buy cheap. If I’m holding it all day. Buy nice. And if I’m out spending money chasing trophy fish etc buy them best you can.

Hence I run a mix of sienna all the way up to Biomaster/saragosa’s in spin. And tiagras for the tuna gear. if I was off chasing gt’s etc on spin gear I’d have saltiga/stella

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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by Sebb » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:20 am

ducky wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:12 am
There’s very few times the average fisho is running more than 3kg of drag imo. Which is well within the range of the good cheap stuff.
True.
I caught few good flatties on my last trip, they're in the 40-50cm size, and I loosen the drag for the 'fun' and to 'see' how much drag I actually needed to land those fish. I was surprised how low the drag was. But again, it was flat open water with no structure, and there was no way 40-50cm flat would spool out my 250m 10lb line, even with 0.5 kg drag.
Would've been a diff story fishing for fish that runs into structures etc.
ducky wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:12 am
My motto is pretty much this

If it’s sitting in a rod holder 99% of the time I’m using it. Buy cheap. If I’m holding it all day. Buy nice. And if I’m out spending money chasing trophy fish etc buy them best you can.

Hence I run a mix of sienna all the way up to Biomaster/saragosa’s in spin. And tiagras for the tuna gear. if I was off chasing gt’s etc on spin gear I’d have saltiga/stella
Good logical thinking.
Yes, agree. Without realising, my mostly used gear is my most expensive too. As mentioned by someone already, casting lures all day, few grams in weight can make a big difference.
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dezza68
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Re: Cost effectiveness

Post by dezza68 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:21 am

I think maybe Dougies point answers the cost effectiveness argument, certainly land based. There are lots of reels with smooth drag than safely put out more stopping power than I can use. At least I can still blame my gear when I get done by a big fish. Would have caught it if I had a Stella😂

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