Back in lockdown again.

[happyfriggincamper]

There are non mRNA vaccine options available ie the traditional proven for many decades type of vaccine if the mRNA types are of concern to you.

The vector based ones? I could be wrong but my understanding is they still stem from the original generation of gene-based vaccine therapy research which started in the late 80's and utilise the artificial spike protein which has been the main point of concern stopping these types of medications making to market prior to the Covid EUA approvals. If its the vector based ones you are talking about - what are the other vector based vaccines that have been in market for decades?

There's some protein based ones, the Novavax vaccine we'll start getting here is one of these. Although if you're worried about the involvement of gene technology you're probably out of luck as pretty much all of them use some sort of modified protein.

That said, there's an all-natural source of the spike protein coming everyone's way in a few months for anyone not keen on the artificial one. The side effects aren't nice though, and it has an approximately 1% fatality rate.

What's this new product that's coming?

I know it wasn't your statement (frozen pods), but do you know what other vaccines he was referring to that use the same immune response approach as the non-mRna vaccine (again presuming he was speaking to the vector based ones)?

He's probably referring to the adenovirus vector vaccines, they've got a virus (it's from the family of viruses that cause the common cold) and get it to express the spike protein from covid. There's a few ways of doing this but it generally involves a bit of gene editing though so you might not want it. The AstraZenica, Sputnik V, J&J are all this type of vaccine.

There's also some inactive virus vaccines, essentially they just kill a bunch of covid vaccines and inject you with the remains. The various bits of protein trigger an immune response. Again, I think they use a modified covid virus for this. SinoVac is this type of vaccine, there aren't any of these on the list to be bought into Australia though.

The reason they use a lot of genetic engineering is the spike protein doesn't stay in the right shape without some other proteins holding it together. There was an Australian vaccine candidate that used a second protein from HIV to hold the spike protein together, unfortunately it caused false positives for HIV due to the extra protein so it was stopped early in it's development. The other solution it to replace some of the amino acids in the spike protein with different ones that cause it to fold more naturally without any additional proteins. Ultimately your immune system recognises the shape and positioning of the active site of the protein so the exact amino acid sequence doesn't need to be the same as the wild type virus.

mRNA vaccines are the ultimate (currently at least) form of that. They trick your cells into producing the spike protein with some of the amino acids replaced so it folds into the correct shape. It's basically doing the same thing a virus does - introduce DNA, RNA, mRNA (different viruses do it slightly differently) into a cell and hijack the cell's machinery to make proteins. The difference is that this just makes a single protein rather than the components of an entire virus that can then go and invade more cells and make you really sick. Because mRNA is just a temporary 'messenger' molecule that carries information between the DNA in the cell's nucleus and the protein making machinery outside the nucleus it doesn't make any permanent changes other than the immune response it provokes.

Yeah cheers, this generally was my understanding of the different versions of the gene therapy vaccines - its still quite new as far as it's usage in humans and its overall behaviours once in the body.

[bowl]

My first jab today.
Once I get second jab I will be 250$ richer from work.

[4liters]

[frozenpod]

My first jab today.
Once I get second jab I will be 250$ richer from work.

Does the $250 appeal to you ie if you didn't want to be vaccinated would you do it for $250?

[PhilN]

No. 1 thing no one is talking about
(And without a doubt the most important thing at this exact point in time is the vaccine)

Get healthy......
It is the one thing in your control
It is the primary thing that will protect you from possible future variants where vaccines may not work
And no one is talking about it.....

Sure - so called healthy (or "otherwise healthy" people) are dying... (It is an open question how healthy they actually were), but I have no doubt that healthy people will die....
But I also know that after the current vaccine - my best chance is to get as healthy as possible.....

[bowl]

My first jab today.
Once I get second jab I will be 250$ richer from work.

Does the $250 appeal to you ie if you didn't want to be vaccinated would you do it for $250?

Was going to get jab eventually..so I guess it just made me get jab earlier.

[cobby]

golf

Final day at Carnoustie was a cracker last week. Minjee and Kyriacou were on a roll at one point before Steph dropped shots late.

I've been tempted to take the clubs for a walk and throw them over a fence or two... 3 clubs, 72 holes all within a 15 minute walk from the front door.

[Truedogz]

In an earlier post I alluded to the fact that I had access to pre-publication study information on the side effects of both the AZ and Pfizer vaccines. The study has now been published. It is very comprehensive, covering 29 million people, with charts even showing the windows when the different effects occur. It is a lengthy paper and the link is below. But here is a simple summary from a number of news sources:

"Reports have focused on the AstraZeneca jab’s link to cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST), or blood clots in the brain.
The study estimated that for 10 million people who received the AstraZeneca jab, there were seven additional cases, compared to 20 in people with COVID infection.
For blood clotting in a vein (venous thromboembolism), scientists estimated that there were 66 additional cases among 10 million who received the AstraZeneca jab, but 12,614 among those with the virus.
The study found that the AstraZeneca jab was associated with excess cases of thrombocytopenia, or low levels of blood-clotting platelets, with 107 additional cases per 10 million people. But the figure for those infected with the virus was 934.
The Pfizer vaccine was linked to an estimated 143 excess cases of stroke per 10 million, while COVID was linked to 1,699 excess strokes.
Hippisley-Cox stressed that increased risks associated with the jabs were short-term only, while virus infection was associated with increased risk for the whole of the 28-day period examined.
For example, the Pfizer jab increased stroke risk for 15 to 21 days, she said.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931

You wont get more detailed information on the vaccine risks than this. As I said the vaccines in some people are triggering the effects of the virus itself and you are better off getting those effects without your health being compromised by the other impacts of the virus.

AZ is an excellent vaccine. The whispering campaign against it (some of it political, some originating from big pharma with vested interests) has been a disgrace and has set back vaccination both in this country and elsewhere. What is not getting attention is Pfizer also has some albeit very low risks.

Once again I'll share some pre-publication information that is 6-8 weeks away from being public. It has been widely publicised that compared Pfizer, AZ provides lower initial protection from infection though comparable prevention from serious illness. What is coming through now is that protection declines faster with the mRNA vaccines. Amongst the earliest recipients AZ maintains high protection.

Don't hesitate to get vaccinated as within the 6 months everybody in the country will be exposed. The best vaccine is the one in your arm.

[Lightningx]

Looking outside and another beautiful day and can’t take the boat out………..

[DougieK]

In an earlier post I alluded to the fact that I had access to pre-publication study information on the side effects of both the AZ and Pfizer vaccines. The study has now been published. It is very comprehensive, covering 29 million people, with charts even showing the windows when the different effects occur. It is a lengthy paper and the link is below. But here is a simple summary from a number of news sources:

"Reports have focused on the AstraZeneca jab’s link to cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST), or blood clots in the brain.
The study estimated that for 10 million people who received the AstraZeneca jab, there were seven additional cases, compared to 20 in people with COVID infection.
For blood clotting in a vein (venous thromboembolism), scientists estimated that there were 66 additional cases among 10 million who received the AstraZeneca jab, but 12,614 among those with the virus.
The study found that the AstraZeneca jab was associated with excess cases of thrombocytopenia, or low levels of blood-clotting platelets, with 107 additional cases per 10 million people. But the figure for those infected with the virus was 934.
The Pfizer vaccine was linked to an estimated 143 excess cases of stroke per 10 million, while COVID was linked to 1,699 excess strokes.
Hippisley-Cox stressed that increased risks associated with the jabs were short-term only, while virus infection was associated with increased risk for the whole of the 28-day period examined.
For example, the Pfizer jab increased stroke risk for 15 to 21 days, she said.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931

You wont get more detailed information on the vaccine risks than this. As I said the vaccines in some people are triggering the effects of the virus itself and you are better off getting those effects without your health being compromised by the other impacts of the virus.

AZ is an excellent vaccine. The whispering campaign against it (some of it political, some originating from big pharma with vested interests) has been a disgrace and has set back vaccination both in this country and elsewhere. What is not getting attention is Pfizer also has some albeit very low risks.

Once again I'll share some pre-publication information that is 6-8 weeks away from being public. It has been widely publicised that compared Pfizer, AZ provides lower initial protection from infection though comparable prevention from serious illness. What is coming through now is that protection declines faster with the mRNA vaccines. Amongst the earliest recipients AZ maintains high protection.

Don't hesitate to get vaccinated as within the 6 months everybody in the country will be exposed. The best vaccine is the one in your arm.

Nah mate I watched a guy in sunglasses on youtube while I was taking my morning dump say it's too risky. Think I'll just take my chances.